So here's what I'm thinking...
...for the dreaded Culture Talk.
The theme is going to be how independent music has its greatest effect as an influence on bands in later generations, and how eventually the indie sound bleeds into the mainstream. I'll illustrate this with sort of a geneology chart of X influenced Y influenced Z, culminating (er...if that's the way to put it) in Nirvana and the Smashing Pumpkins. So basically it's Six Degrees of Indie to Mainstream.
1960s: The Kinks, aka the indie version of the Beatles. Clip: All Day and All of the Night. (Suggestions for a better song example?)
Early '70s: The Velvet Underground. What people say about them is that only about a thousand people heard their early records, but every one of those people went out and started a band. Clip: Sweet Jane. (Again, suggestions?)
Mid-seventies: Punk happens. Brief explanation of punk. The Ramones. Clip: Sedated. Judy Is A Punk.
Early '80s: Post-punk: more acoustic and melodic, but with the anger and immediacy of punk. Violent Femmes. Clip: Kiss Off or I Held Her In My Arms.
Mid-'80s: Post-punk starts developing into what people call "alternative". The Replacements, who never got much past playing shows for the beer tab. Clip: Unsatisfied or Bastards of Young or Can't Hardly Wait.
Late '80s: The motherfucking Pixies, whom I refuse to classify. Clip: Debaser, Digging For Fire.
Early '90s: "Alternative" breaks into the mainstream. Nirvana. Clip: a live version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" where the Pixies influence is really clear--it sounds a lot like "Debaser".
Slightly later '90s, a parallel track of indie-influenced mainstream: The Smashing Pumpkins. Clip: Cherub Rock, something else too (what??)
Later '90s: Even though "alternative" became mainstream, spawning a host of cheap imitators, independent music kept on developing on its own track, which started being referred to as "indie" or "indie rock". Two bands that kept on truckin': Guided by Voices (clip: Atom Eyes), and Modest Mouse (clip: Doin' the Cockroach).
So yeah. That's about it. I might do a parallel chain on mainstream influence on indie bands, such as Beach Boys -->the Shins, but I think I might have enough with the above, expanded of course. Maybe also a little featurette on the Modern Lovers, who were the quintessential indie band in that they never even recorded an album during their lifetime, and who are famous basically for being incredibly obscure. Hey, I like them too, but come on, it's true. Song clip: Roadrunner.
Suggestions are welcomed, indeed begged for. Especially about the song clips: I'm having trouble finding songs where the influences I'm trying to show are really clear.
Also, I know some of these bands aren't really Indie in the strictest sense. I'm going more for the spirit of indie here: much like the spirit of punk rock, it's not so much a genre as a State of Mind.
Note: If you do have any brilliant insights, please share them asap, because the shit goes down tomorrow night (Thursday).
The theme is going to be how independent music has its greatest effect as an influence on bands in later generations, and how eventually the indie sound bleeds into the mainstream. I'll illustrate this with sort of a geneology chart of X influenced Y influenced Z, culminating (er...if that's the way to put it) in Nirvana and the Smashing Pumpkins. So basically it's Six Degrees of Indie to Mainstream.
1960s: The Kinks, aka the indie version of the Beatles. Clip: All Day and All of the Night. (Suggestions for a better song example?)
Early '70s: The Velvet Underground. What people say about them is that only about a thousand people heard their early records, but every one of those people went out and started a band. Clip: Sweet Jane. (Again, suggestions?)
Mid-seventies: Punk happens. Brief explanation of punk. The Ramones. Clip: Sedated. Judy Is A Punk.
Early '80s: Post-punk: more acoustic and melodic, but with the anger and immediacy of punk. Violent Femmes. Clip: Kiss Off or I Held Her In My Arms.
Mid-'80s: Post-punk starts developing into what people call "alternative". The Replacements, who never got much past playing shows for the beer tab. Clip: Unsatisfied or Bastards of Young or Can't Hardly Wait.
Late '80s: The motherfucking Pixies, whom I refuse to classify. Clip: Debaser, Digging For Fire.
Early '90s: "Alternative" breaks into the mainstream. Nirvana. Clip: a live version of "Smells Like Teen Spirit" where the Pixies influence is really clear--it sounds a lot like "Debaser".
Slightly later '90s, a parallel track of indie-influenced mainstream: The Smashing Pumpkins. Clip: Cherub Rock, something else too (what??)
Later '90s: Even though "alternative" became mainstream, spawning a host of cheap imitators, independent music kept on developing on its own track, which started being referred to as "indie" or "indie rock". Two bands that kept on truckin': Guided by Voices (clip: Atom Eyes), and Modest Mouse (clip: Doin' the Cockroach).
So yeah. That's about it. I might do a parallel chain on mainstream influence on indie bands, such as Beach Boys -->the Shins, but I think I might have enough with the above, expanded of course. Maybe also a little featurette on the Modern Lovers, who were the quintessential indie band in that they never even recorded an album during their lifetime, and who are famous basically for being incredibly obscure. Hey, I like them too, but come on, it's true. Song clip: Roadrunner.
Suggestions are welcomed, indeed begged for. Especially about the song clips: I'm having trouble finding songs where the influences I'm trying to show are really clear.
Also, I know some of these bands aren't really Indie in the strictest sense. I'm going more for the spirit of indie here: much like the spirit of punk rock, it's not so much a genre as a State of Mind.
Note: If you do have any brilliant insights, please share them asap, because the shit goes down tomorrow night (Thursday).
posted by ridley at 12/08/2004 07:07:00 AM
5 Comments:
The biggest influence for the 70's and beyond were the Sex Pistols and the Clash. No way to overlook them. Also, The Talking Heads. A few more suggestions for other influences from the 80's/90's- The Minutemen, who later morphed into Firehose(Mike Watt). Husker-Du (although not lasting). And obscurely, Dinosaur Jr. The Replacements transformation from punk to soft was interesting to witness. Only saw them once though in '89.
Thanks for the suggestions, bro.
Yeah, I totally agree about Sex Pistols/Clash, but the talk is kind of focusing on American bands (yeah, the Kinks, but I kind of just threw them in there). Although I have to say, I think the Sex Pistols were more influential than they were "good" strictly speaking. Talking Heads, right on. I'll try to integrate them; especially if I do end up talking about the Modern Lovers, cause they have the same keyboard player. The Minutemen/Husker Du are definitely important, but the thing is, I don't actually have any of their songs, so I'll have to give them a miss. I do remember listening to the Minutemen in your truck way back in my sophomore year, though...good times.
So...how did it go?
--Catherine
velvet underground: loaded
tracks 2-4
sweet jane
rock and roll
cool it down
Gonna have to disagree COMPLETELY with Chimmers (sorry Sean). If you want to talk about VU as an influence, avoid LOADED. ESPECIALLY if you are interested in more punky stuff, as LOADED is embarassingly mainstream and "classic". Still good, though. Anyway, stick to the first two albums. Suggestions: Heroin, Run Run Run, I Heard Her Call My Name, and, perhaps perversely (because of length), Sister Ray. Agree with Nevermore, at least about Talking Heads (anything from the first two albums is key) and Dinosaur Jr. Why arent DJr more respected?! The sounded like Built to Spill ten years before BTS did. What a great band. Tell me where you been? May I suggest, for mid-70s, anything from MARQUEE MOON by Television. I SEE NO EVIL or the title song. Oh man. Its good. REAL good. Good luck! I'm not too big on Sex Pistols, but that might just be personal. Go Ramones anyday. Or even The Clash. The Jam maybe? BTW I believe the Modern Lovers did release one album? Also, dont forget Built To Spill. -JDTwaddle www.twaddlemountain.com
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